then they are going to have to deal with obama for the next four years, and the numbers don't make a huge difference. there is more of an incent dividend to cut a deal or at least say we're going to put it all often for a couple of months. but if romney wins they are going to say why should becut a deal with a lame duck president? let's wait until january. so the likelihood of a deal depends very much on the outcome of the election. >> jennifer: totally. but how can you get a deal, whether you are mitt romney or barack obama -- how can you get a deal with people who have signed the grover norquist pledge to never raise taxes? >> and how many have signed it. [ overlapping speakers ] >> yes, exactly. so the answer is -- you already had a number of senate republicans who indicated that they are not going to be bound by the pledge. and the senate -- you have a real willingness to find come kind of deal. but in the house here is the blunt reality, unless the majority of republicans in the house step away from that pledge, and unless john boehner is willing to cut a deal because it will ha